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Re: 802.1q Was (Re: Plans for 2.5 / 2.6 ???

To: Andrey Savochkin <saw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: 802.1q Was (Re: Plans for 2.5 / 2.6 ???
From: Ben Greear <greearb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:38:36 -0700
Cc: Mitchell Blank Jr <mitch@xxxxxxxxxx>, rob@xxxxxxxxxxx, buytenh@xxxxxxx, netdev@xxxxxxxxxxx, gleb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, jamal <hadi@xxxxxxxxxx>
Organization: Candela Technologies
References: <3938611E.D074F254@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <Pine.GSO.4.20.0006030945230.15626-100000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <20000603091818.B48132@xxxxxxxxxx> <20000605102627.A8473@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <20000605053533.C77216@xxxxxxxxxx> <20000607211145.A8073@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sender: owner-netdev@xxxxxxxxxxx
Andrey Savochkin wrote:
> 

> 
> The majority of the enumerated points is just a matter of saving time for
> adjusting user-level tools.  The fact that something is able provide SNMP
> statistic doesn't make it a network device, it's ridiculous!

Saving time and keeping from having to adjust (the unwashed multitude of)
user-level programs are both very important goals.  If you don't support things
like SNMP the easy way, then every piece of code that must walk all devices, now
has to **also** walk every VLAN, and every other new device-like-thing that is
put into it's own little abstraction.  This will quickly bloat the kernel with
stuff that may give us no extra performance.

> Bridging between VLANs is not a problem, it's the question of who calls whom.
> The logic determining VLAN id may call bridge procedures instead of vice
> versa.

I started to write my own bridging for VLAN, but it really made no sense, since
I want to also be able to bridge a VLAN across a FR-PVC, ethernet, and/or an 
ATM-PVC.  For
that to work in any sane way, the entities must be of the same type/behavior 
(ie net_device).

> I'm not against VLANs or even against their implementation as netdevices.
> But we should agree that it's an unnatural way to do things (from kernel
> perspective, certainly), and we decide to do it this way only because we
> follow the way of least resistance.

I don't agree it's unnatural, and I'm not alone.

Lets go back to the original arguments against many devices.  (Performance, if 
I remember
correctly.)  I believe we can satisfy the performance, and it will mean the 
least amount
of new code in the kernel, (and just as importantly, in user-space.)

> 
> Regards
>                                         Andrey V.
>                                         Savochkin

-- 
Ben Greear (greearb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)  http://www.candelatech.com
Author of ScryMUD:  scry.wanfear.com 4444        (Released under GPL)
http://scry.wanfear.com               http://scry.wanfear.com/~greear

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