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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This might provide some useful insight too.. I just remembered
that the xfs_growfs command was run twice. The first time it errored because I
omitted the –d option. I reran it with the –d option and it completed successfully.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Is it possible the xfs_growfs grew the filesystem 2x intended
size by running it twice? It seems that the command would fail the second time
because all of the remaining space on the underlying device was used up by the
first run?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#4D4F53'>Jason Vagalatos<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#4D4F53'>Storage Administrator<br>
Citrix|Online<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#4D4F53'>7408 Hollister Avenue<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#4D4F53'>Goleta California 93117<br>
<b>T</b>: 805.690.2943 | <b>M</b>: 805.403.9433<br>
<a href="mailto:jason.vagalatos@citrixonline.com">jason.vagalatos@citrixonline.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.citrixonline.com/"
title="blocked::http://www.citrixonline.com/ http://www.citrixonline.com/ http://www.citrix.com">http://www.citrixonline.com</a></span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Jason Vagalatos <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'david@fromorbit.com'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'xfs@oss.sgi.com'; Joe Allen<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: xfs_growfs failure....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I’m picking this up from Joe. I’ll attempt to answer your
questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The underlying device was grown from 89TB to 100TB. The
xfs filesystem utilizes an external logdev. After the underlying device
was grown by approx 11TB, we ran xfs_growfs –d
<filesystem_mount_point>. This command completed without errors,
but the filesystem immediately went into a bad state.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We are running xfsprogs-2.8.20-1.el5.centos on RHEL Kernel Linux
2.6.18-53.1.19.el5 #1 SMP Tue Apr 22 03:01:10 EDT 2008 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64
GNU/Linux<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We killed the xfs_repair before it was able to find a secondary
superblock and make things worse.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Currently the underlying block device is:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>--- Logical volume ---<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> LV
Name
/dev/logfs-sessions/sessions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> VG
Name
logfs-sessions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> LV
UUID
32TRbe-OIDw-u4aH-fUmD-FLmU-5jRv-MaVYDg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> LV Write Access
read/write<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> LV Status
available<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> #
open
0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> LV
Size
100.56 TB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> Current
LE
26360253<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>
Segments
18<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>
Allocation
inherit<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> Read ahead sectors 0<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> Block
device 253:61<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>At this point what are our options to recover this filesystem?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thank you for any help you may be able to provide.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#4D4F53'>Jason Vagalatos<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Joe Allen <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jason Vagalatos<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Fwd: xfs_growfs failure....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
wierd. he seems to be implying we were at 110tb and stuff is written there. I
guess we need to be 100% sure of the space allocated. were the other Luns ever
attached ?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Begin forwarded message:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b>From:</b> Dave Chinner <<a
href="mailto:david@fromorbit.com">david@fromorbit.com</a>>ng <br>
<b>Date:</b> February 24, 2010 3:54:20 AM PST<br>
<b>To:</b> Joe Allen <<a href="mailto:Joe.Allen@citrix.com">Joe.Allen@citrix.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> "<a href="mailto:xfs@oss.sgi.com">xfs@oss.sgi.com</a>"
<<a href="mailto:xfs@oss.sgi.com">xfs@oss.sgi.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> <b>Re: xfs_growfs failure....</b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 02:44:37AM
-0800, Joe Allen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I am in some difficulty here over a 100TB filesystem that<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Is now unusable after a xfs_growfs command.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Is there someone that might help assist?<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>#mount: /dev/logfs-sessions/sessions: can't read superblock<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>Filesystem "dm-61": Disabling barriers, not
supported with external log device<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>attempt to access beyond end of device<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>dm-61: rw=0, want=238995038208, limit=215943192576<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
You've grown the filesystem to 238995038208 ѕectors (111.3TiB),<br>
but the underlying device is only 215943192576 sectors (100.5TiB)<br>
in size.<br>
<br>
I'm assuming that you're trying to mount the filesystem after a<br>
reboot? I make this assumption as growfs is an online operation and<br>
won't grow if the underlying block device has not already been<br>
grown. For a subsequent mount to fail with the underlying device<br>
being too small, something about the underlying block<br>
device had to change....<br>
<br>
What kernel version and xfsprogs version are you using?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>xfs_repair -n <device> basically looks for superblocks
(phase 1 I<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>guess ) for a long time. I'm letting it run, but not much
hope.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Don't repair the filesystem - there is nothing wrong with it<br>
unless you start modifying stuff. What you need to do is fix the<br>
underlying device to bring it back to the size it was supposed to<br>
be at when the grow operation was run.<br>
<br>
What does /proc/partitions tell you about the size of dm-61? does<br>
that report the correct size, and if it does, what is it?<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I'm hesitant to run xfs_repair -L or without the -n
flag for fear of making it worse.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Good - don't run anything like that until you sort out whether the<br>
underlying device is correctly sized or not.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>-bash-3.1# xfs_db -r -c 'sb 0' -c p
/dev/logfs-sessions/sessions<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>magicnum = 0x58465342<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>blocksize = 4096<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>dblocks = 29874379776<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
XFS definitely thinks it is 111.3TiB in size.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>rblocks = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rextents = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>uuid = fc8bdf76-d962-43c1-ae60-b85f378978a6<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>logstart = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rootino = 2048<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rbmino = 2049<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rsumino = 2050<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rextsize = 384<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>agblocks = 268435328<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>agcount = 112<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
112 AGs of 1TiB each - that confirms the grow succeeded and it was<br>
able to write metadata to disk between 100 and 111 TiB without<br>
errors being reported. That implies the block device must have been<br>
that big at some point...<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>rbmblocks = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>logblocks = 32000<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>versionnum = 0x3184<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>sectsize = 512<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>inodesize = 256<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>inopblock = 16<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>fname =
"\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000\000"<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>blocklog = 12<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>sectlog = 9<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>inodelog = 8<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>inopblog = 4<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>agblklog = 28<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rextslog = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>inprogress = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>imax_pct = 25<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>icount = 7291520<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>ifree = 8514<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>fdblocks = 6623185597<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
With 24.5TiB of free space<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>-bash-3.1# xfs_db -r -c 'sb 2' -c p
/dev/logfs-sessions/sessions<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>magicnum = 0x58465342<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>blocksize = 4096<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>dblocks = 24111418368<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
That's 89.9TiB...<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>rblocks = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rextents = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>uuid = fc8bdf76-d962-43c1-ae60-b85f378978a6<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>logstart = 0<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rootino = 2048<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rbmino = 2049<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rsumino = 2050<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>rextsize = 384<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>agblocks = 268435328<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal>agcount = 90<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
And 90 AGs. That tells me the filesystem was created as a 90TiB<br>
filesystem. Can you tell me if you attempted to grow from 90TiB to<br>
100TiB or from 100TiB to 110TiB? There were bugs at one point in<br>
both the userspace grow code and the kernel code that resulted in<br>
bad grows (hence the need to know the versions this occurred on<br>
and what you were actually attempting to do), but these problems<br>
can usually be fixed up with some xfs_db magic.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Dave.<br>
-- <br>
Dave Chinner<br>
<a href="mailto:david@fromorbit.com">david@fromorbit.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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