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Re: [pcp] Fwd: [Matahari] Forw: matahari: comparing Sigar and PCP for da

To: kenj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [pcp] Fwd: [Matahari] Forw: matahari: comparing Sigar and PCP for data gathering
From: Andrew Beekhof <andrew@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 11:46:11 +0200
Cc: matahari@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, pcp@xxxxxxxxxxx, "Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@xxxxxxxxxx>
In-reply-to: <1303075094.3550.83.camel@bozo-laptop>
References: <mailman.24111.1301676824.5826.perftools-list@xxxxxxxxxx> <y0m8vvolock.fsf@xxxxxxxx> <BANLkTinmX+kcbiX+fcJgC1n7WTKJyjsf5g@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <BANLkTimy0_jQmD_oevpXseVTxwuaoJF3mg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <1303075094.3550.83.camel@bozo-laptop>
On Sun, Apr 17, 2011 at 11:18 PM, Ken McDonell <kenj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Thu, 2011-04-14 at 16:22 +0200, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
>> ...
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Andrew Beekhof <andrew@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Date: Wed, Apr 6, 2011 at 1:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Matahari] Forw: matahari: comparing Sigar and PCP for
>> data gathering
>> To: "Frank Ch. Eigler" <fche@xxxxxxxxxx>
>> ...
>> First up, thankyou for the very detailed analysis.
>> The challenge, from my perspective, is not so much "does PCP check the
>> same boxes as Sigar" but more "Is there something compelling in PCP
>> that makes the migration work worthwhile".
>>
>> To date, I'd have to say no.
>>
>> That said, and in contrast to what you're saying about PCP, Sigar
>> upstream is not exactly responsive.
>> So depending on what level of frustration we reach trying to get out
>> windows device name patch merged, this may well provide sufficient
>> justification to switch.
>
> Let me start by declaring my bias ... I am one of the original PCP
> architects and I've been actively involved in PCP for the past 18 years.

Understood :-)

>
> My knowledge of Matahari and Sigar is limited to reading the web pages,
> downloading Sigar source and a quick inspection of the code.
>
> In comparison to other performance monitoring uses of PCP, the Matahari
> demands appear to be modest in terms of the scope of metrics and
> services, so I am not surprised that other collection infrastructures
> like Sigar would be sufficient.  Of course Matahari is doing many things
> (especially in the control area) that are outside PCP's capabilities.
>
> I suspect the real benefits of re-basing using PCP would be the future
> options for expanding Matahari or indeed introducing new performance
> management services that complement Matahari.  Some of the PCP features
> that may be useful include:
>
>      * Vastly more performance data is available "out of the box" with
>        a plug-in architecture that allows new pools of information to
>        be exported easily and efficiently ... this can be done within
>        the PCP project or outside it.  The "don't instantiate it unless
>        you're asked for it" model in PCP means the quiescent overheads
>        are very, very low, even if a large volume of data is
>        potentially available.

Interesting

>      * PCP's archive services allow independent decisions about what
>        data should be logged and when.  Once an archive has been
>        created it is processed by clients using the _same_ API that is
>        used for live collection and monitoring.  This allows powerful
>        retrospective analysis (what's different today compared to
>        yesterday, or last week, or the previous software release?) and
>        capacity planning.
>      * PCP provides complete metadata for all the exported data, so in
>        addition to the metric's name, you can discover that it is a
>        signed 64-bit counter in units of microseconds or an unsigned
>        32-bit instantaneous value in units of Mbytes.  This allows
>        client applications to make sensible and automated decisions
>        about how to handle the stream of values in terms of units
>        conversion, scaling, rate conversion, wrap handling, etc.

Nod.  QMF gives us a similar capability.

>      * The client-server architecture of PCP means it already provides
>        efficient and robust protocols for shipping performance data,
>        meaning it is ready for both single node and multi-node
>        monitoring for homogeneous clusters, federated clusters, arrays,
>        grids, clouds, etc.  It appears that part of Matahari may be
>        doing the same thing to pull the performance data from Sigar, so
>        there may be a potential for Matahari to leverage the PCP
>        protocols and reduce Matahari complexity.

Matahari uses QMF/qpid as our comms bus, so its all neatly hidden away
from us :-)

>      * If Matahari is expected to provide a range of alarms and alerts
>        for performance-related issues, then the inference engine within
>        PCP (pmie) is extremely powerful.  pmie evaluates predicates (in
>        a 1st order predicate calculus) against a stream of data with
>        arbitrary actions executed when the predicates are found to be
>        true.  So rules that capture predicates like "if some network
>        interface ..." or "if all cpus ..." are easy.  Using the PCP
>        APIs rules can be developed and tested with archive data before
>        deployment on production systems.

The ability to fire of events under certain performance conditions
might indeed be an interesting capability.
I'll keep that in mind.

>
> That will do for now, but I think it is fair to say that the PCP
> community is both responsive and open to suggestions, so if there is
> some feature/function that would make a better fit with Matahari (or
> indeed any upstream value-added consumer of performance data), we'd be
> keen to have a discussion about that.

Thankyou very much for taking the time to explain a bit more about the
PCP project.
We'll certainly be in touch if we're in a position to migrate :-)

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