From owner-pcp@oss.sgi.com Wed Mar 1 05:39:59 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 05:39:50 -0800 Received: from segfault.vtrails.com ([192.114.170.141]:35593 "EHLO segfault.vtrails.com") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 05:39:27 -0800 Received: from vtrails.com (deus.vtrails.com [192.114.170.133]) by segfault.vtrails.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15943 for ; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:33:53 +0200 Message-ID: <38BD1C41.1D8CA6A6@vtrails.com> Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 15:33:53 +0200 From: Alexander Sirotkin Organization: VTRAILS X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pcp@oss.sgi.com Subject: pmview Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1826D4B4317D18D0E73BF77A" Sender: owner-pcp@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;pcp-outgoing --------------1826D4B4317D18D0E73BF77A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello. Are you going to release Pmview for linux and if so, when it will be available ? -- Alexander Sirotkin. Vtrails.com server development manager. --------------1826D4B4317D18D0E73BF77A Content-Type: text/html; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
Hello.



Are you going to release Pmview for linux and if so,



when it will be available ?






-- 
   Alexander Sirotkin.               
   Vtrails.com server development manager.

 

--------------1826D4B4317D18D0E73BF77A--


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--------------F5676956571227FE0298776D
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Hello.

I'm trying to understand wether pmchart is included in Linux version
of pcp - some man pages (pmval(1) for example) mention it, but it
could not find the executable...

--
   Alexander Sirotkin.
   Vtrails.com server development manager.



--------------F5676956571227FE0298776D
Content-Type: text/html; charset=koi8-r
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Hello.

I'm trying to understand wether pmchart is included in Linux version

of pcp - some man pages (pmval(1) for example) mention it, but it

could not find the executable...

-- 
   Alexander Sirotkin.               
   Vtrails.com server development manager.

 

--------------F5676956571227FE0298776D--


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On Wed, 1 Mar 2000, Alexander Sirotkin wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> Are you going to release Pmview for linux and if so,
> when it will be available ?

Pmview and pmchart are available, but not for free. They are
shipped as the "pcp-pro" binary RPM with SGI's ACE and ISE
products, which are hardware/software bundles running linux. 

ACE == Advanced Cluster Environment, preconfigured cluster of
       SGI 1400 servers, with bundled software.

ISE == Internet Server Environment, preconfigured web server
       with bundled software.

So I'm afraid if you want pcp-pro, you'll have to purchase
ACE or ISE from SGI. At this time, and for the foreseable future,
pcp-pro is not a separate item in the SGI price-book.

pro-tem, if you have PCP for IRIX, you can monitor your
linux systems using pmview and pmchart running on IRIX.

thanks
    -- Mark Goodwin
       SGI Engineering


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I've built a binary RPM for PCP 2.1.4 on Red Hat/Alpha/6.0.  I haven't given
it a full testing yet, but it seems ok, (pmstat, pmval work as expected).

Any interest?

-- 
Eric Roman       NERSC Future Technologies Group
(510)486-6420                    Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

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On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, Eric Roman wrote:

> 
> I've built a binary RPM for PCP 2.1.4 on Red Hat/Alpha/6.0.  I haven't given
> it a full testing yet, but it seems ok, (pmstat, pmval work as expected).

So the "delayed reporting" problem with pmstat et al has now gone away?
(if so it must have been stdout buffering - I added a change to these
tools to force stdout to be line buffered).

> 
> Any interest?

I am interested from the portability perspective, but you are the only
PCP on Linux-Alpha user that I know of. 

	-- Mark


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Our reading of PCP doesn't uncover any means of supporting a set of
metrics which are visible to some users and not others.
Though there seems to be some sort of "context" concept with the PMAPI,
it doesn't appear to include a user ID context to use in such occasions.
Instead monitoring happens in the agent process (itself a daemon) owner,
which is too coarse if there is only one such daemon.

Has any thought been put into this aspect? If not, then we'd like to
investigate including this somehow, possibly based on modifying
pmNewContext()
to accept and use a user ID for the PM_CONTEXT_HOST type. We'd be
seeking to have a relevent agent forked off with a particular user ID in
order to handle
requests in the user's context.

We're not as familiar with the architecture as we'd need to be, but does
this sound feasible?

-- 
Peter J. MASON, Senior S/W Architect, Aurema Pty Ltd.
email: petem@aurema.com
phone: +61-2-9698 2322

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"Peter J. MASON" wrote:
> 
> Our reading of PCP doesn't uncover any means of supporting a set of
> metrics which are visible to some users and not others.
> Though there seems to be some sort of "context" concept with the PMAPI,
> it doesn't appear to include a user ID context to use in such occasions.
> Instead monitoring happens in the agent process (itself a daemon) owner,
> which is too coarse if there is only one such daemon.
> 
> Has any thought been put into this aspect? If not, then we'd like to
> investigate including this somehow, possibly based on modifying
> pmNewContext()
> to accept and use a user ID for the PM_CONTEXT_HOST type. We'd be
> seeking to have a relevent agent forked off with a particular user ID in
> order to handle
> requests in the user's context.
> 
> We're not as familiar with the architecture as we'd need to be, but does
> this sound feasible?
> 

The problem is that any addition of crypto stuff for authentication
causes the
US government to get a little creepy about export restrictions, etc. Not
sure of
the specifics, but just a heads up.

	-Dean Johnson

From owner-pcp@oss.sgi.com Mon Mar 13 19:57:31 2000
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Date:   Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:55:12 +1100
From:   Ken McDonell 
To:     "Peter J. MASON" 
cc:     pcp@oss.sgi.com, kristoph@aurema.com
Subject: Re: pcp security?
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On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Peter J. MASON wrote:
> Our reading of PCP doesn't uncover any means of supporting a set of
> metrics which are visible to some users and not others.

No, there is no such concept in the PCP architecture and protocols.
We adopted a binary model ... if the PMDA is configured, then all
clients that can connect to the PMCD can send requests to the PMDA.

There are some access controls based on the IP address the client
connects to PMCD on, but these are at the level of connection control
(you can or cannot connect, you can or cannot store, you can or cannot
fetch, etc).

> Though there seems to be some sort of "context" concept with the PMAPI,
> it doesn't appear to include a user ID context to use in such occasions.

Contexts are used to maintain a very small amount of state between the
client and PMCD ... aside from IPC channel identification and the
last sent profile, there is nothing else.

And PMDAs can't see any of the client state when they recieve requests
from PMCD.

> Instead monitoring happens in the agent process (itself a daemon) owner,
> which is too coarse if there is only one such daemon.

I am not sure what you're trying to achieve here.  Perhaps you can describe
the problem or hoped-for solution in more detail.

> Has any thought been put into this aspect? If not, then we'd like to
> investigate including this somehow, possibly based on modifying
> pmNewContext()
> to accept and use a user ID for the PM_CONTEXT_HOST type. We'd be
> seeking to have a relevent agent forked off with a particular user ID in
> order to handle
> requests in the user's context.

If you want the user ID to be (a) authenticated in someway (ugly export
issue warning), and/or (b) seen be the PMDAs, then you're in for some
serious extra work.

> We're not as familiar with the architecture as we'd need to be, but does
> this sound feasible?

I can imagine a scheme where some clients "knew" about an end-to-end
authetication mechanism that would give them access to additional
information within a PMDA.  Since this would be your PMDA (I presume)
the implementation cost is the changes to all of the client apps 
(not nice, but may be acceptable).  This could all be done with some
special PMIDs and instance identifiers over the existing PCP store
and fetch protocols.  But before going down that track, I'd like to
understand more about your needs and objectives.


From owner-pcp@oss.sgi.com Mon Mar 13 20:26:31 2000
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On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Ken McDonell wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Peter J. MASON wrote:
> > Our reading of PCP doesn't uncover any means of supporting a set of
> > metrics which are visible to some users and not others.
> 
> No, there is no such concept in the PCP architecture and protocols.
> We adopted a binary model ... if the PMDA is configured, then all
> clients that can connect to the PMCD can send requests to the PMDA.
> 
> There are some access controls based on the IP address the client
> connects to PMCD on, but these are at the level of connection control
> (you can or cannot connect, you can or cannot store, you can or cannot
> fetch, etc).
> 
> > Though there seems to be some sort of "context" concept with the PMAPI,
> > it doesn't appear to include a user ID context to use in such occasions.
> 

You may be able to set up a proxy daemon that does some client
authentication (e.g. a login type arrangement to establish
an autheticatted session between the client and the proxy) and
then forwards requests to pmcd on some other host, which has
been configured to only accept connections from the proxy host. 

Actually, why not just use a simple firewall - authenticated users have
an account on the firewall, use remote X, etc, and pmcd on the servers
only accepts connections from the firewall. This doesn't work if
you still want to allow access to some metrics for non-authenticated
users (but the proxy method could be made to do so).

	-- Mark


From owner-pcp@oss.sgi.com Mon Mar 13 21:46:52 2000
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From:   "Kristoph A. Cichocki-Romanov" 
To:     "Ken McDonell" 
Cc:     , 
Subject: RE: pcp security?
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Greetings,

> I can imagine a scheme where some clients "knew" about an end-to-end
> authetication mechanism that would give them access to additional
> information within a PMDA.  Since this would be your PMDA (I presume)
> the implementation cost is the changes to all of the client apps
> (not nice, but may be acceptable).  This could all be done with some
> special PMIDs and instance identifiers over the existing PCP store
> and fetch protocols.  But before going down that track, I'd like to
> understand more about your needs and objectives.

We have a product that exports metrics information in a fashion that is
almost ideally suited to PCP. In fact we are developing a mechanism that,
among other things, will extract information from /proc and feed the data,
via a daemon to a remote client. Since this is exactly what PCP does we
thought we should investigate if we could integrate with PCP.

We also need to propagate data back (pmStore works very nicely).
Unfortunately, only privileged users are allowed to do this - and we wish to
have a mechanism that can delegate that privilege. In our original
implementation we were planning to use a challenge-response mechanism on our
daemon to validate the user.

Since this is a commercial product we need an elegant solution (we'd like to
avoid the firewall option) and, ideally, we would like to use only one
daemon. I hasten to add that we are eager to contribute to PCP, rather than
do something that only benefits us. (The security issue was raised by
several people during the PCP BOF in Sydney, so I am tempted to think PCP
could benefit in some way.)

]{ristoph



From owner-pcp@oss.sgi.com Tue Mar 14 13:50:18 2000
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Date:   Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:49:44 -0800
From:   Eric Roman 
To:     Mark Goodwin 
Cc:     pcp@oss.sgi.com
Subject: Re: PCP Build for Alpha
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> > I've built a binary RPM for PCP 2.1.4 on Red Hat/Alpha/6.0.  I haven't given
> > it a full testing yet, but it seems ok, (pmstat, pmval work as expected).
> 
> So the "delayed reporting" problem with pmstat et al has now gone away?
> (if so it must have been stdout buffering - I added a change to these
> tools to force stdout to be line buffered).

I don't think this bug was in the line buffering.  It went away when I
futzed around w/ the sginap macro (CLK_TCK was assumed at 100, it's 1000
on Alpha.).  I think you fixed that in PCP 2.1.4-2

> > Any interest?
> 
> I am interested from the portability perspective, but you are the only
> PCP on Linux-Alpha user that I know of. 

Ok.  I thought you might be interested in putting a binary on the web
page.

-- 
Eric Roman       NERSC Future Technologies Group
(510)486-6420                    Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory

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On Tue, 14 Mar 2000, Eric Roman wrote:

> > > I've built a binary RPM for PCP 2.1.4 on Red Hat/Alpha/6.0.  I haven't given
> > > it a full testing yet, but it seems ok, (pmstat, pmval work as expected).
> > 
> > So the "delayed reporting" problem with pmstat et al has now gone away?
> > (if so it must have been stdout buffering - I added a change to these
> > tools to force stdout to be line buffered).
> 
> I don't think this bug was in the line buffering.  It went away when I
> futzed around w/ the sginap macro (CLK_TCK was assumed at 100, it's 1000
> on Alpha.).  I think you fixed that in PCP 2.1.4-2

Ah yes, I forgot about that fix. The line buffering doesn't hurt anyway ;-)

> 
> > > Any interest?
> > 
> > I am interested from the portability perspective, but you are the only
> > PCP on Linux-Alpha user that I know of. 
> 
> Ok.  I thought you might be interested in putting a binary on the web
> page.

Actually, I'd rather put a pointer from the PCP home page to the
Alpha-Linux RPM, if you could volunteer to be it's official builder?
Can you also possibly host the binary somewhere?  We have the same
requirement with the PPC-Linux binary RPM.

	thanks
	-- Mark


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> There are some access controls based on the IP address the client
> connects to PMCD on, but these are at the level of connection control
> (you can or cannot connect, you can or cannot store, you can or cannot
> fetch, etc).

This is too coarse with its management becoming intractable too quickly.

> Contexts are used to maintain a very small amount of state between the
> client and PMCD ... aside from IPC channel identification and the
> last sent profile, there is nothing else.
> 
> And PMDAs can't see any of the client state when they recieve requests
> from PMCD.

The data gathering calls from our agent need to run in a user context.
Visibility/access of data
is dependent on the caller's uid. Our agent, if single threaded, would
need to setuid() to that of the data requester before each request.
We thought it better to hope that we could have a forking PMDA, which
would spawn off an agent per user, lasting as long as a context is
active, which seems to be the duration of a given TCP/IP connection. If
this were possible, then a connection to the user specific agent
invocation, might service requests from that user client, if such
navigation were possible.

If data fetching were the only possibility, then perhaps this might not
be a problem, but in our case
storing (or setting) metrics is subject to user privilege and thus needs
to be done in a specific user context too.

-- 
Peter J. MASON, Senior S/W Architect, Aurema Pty Ltd.
email: petem@aurema.com
phone: +61-2-9698 2322

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Date:   Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:33:37 +1000
From:   Ken McDonell 
To:     Borne Mace 
cc:     pcp@oss.sgi.com, pcp-info@sgi.com
Subject: Re: NT port of PCP
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On Thu, 9 Mar 2000, Borne Mace wrote:
> ...
> I recently downloaded your PCP open source code, and it works very well,
> thanks for all the hard work you have all put into it.  Look at the HTML
> slide show about PCP it seems there was a port of the product to NT in 1998,
> can the new PCP code be built for that platform, or is there any place I can
> download a binary of that product?  We are trying to move to an all unix
> environment, sadly some NT is lingering, and still needs to be supported.

I'm afraid the NT port

(a) was limited to the PCP infrastructure (so no agent to poke in the
    NT registry to extract perfomrance metrics), and

(b) used several (the port was done multiple times) Unix-like run-time
    emulations on top of NT, e.g. Nutcracker.  So no conversions to the
    native Windows APIs were attempted.

So the open source code will more or less compile if you have (b), but
there is serious work to be done to complete (a).

The NT work was more in the line of a feasibility study prior to a real
implementation, and the real implementation was never done.

> Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Borne Mace
> MTS, Bidder's Edge, Inc.
> 


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Date:   Wed, 29 Mar 2000 07:37:15 +1000
From:   Ken McDonell 
To:     Ami Vider 
cc:     pcp@oss.sgi.com
Subject: Re: info on Performance Co-Pilot (linux)
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n Fri, 10 Mar 2000, Ami Vider wrote:
> Hello Ken:
> 
> I need a utility to measure IO performance on a Fibre Channel board on
> Linux. We are beta testing a new Linux driver and were looking at something
> equivalent to IOMeter on NT. Do you think that Performance Co-Pilot would be
> useful? Thanks, Ami Vider

Yes.  Without any changes, Linux (and hence PCP) will deliver i/os
per second for each disk spindle ...

$ pmval disk.dev.total

metric:    disk.dev.total
host:      oss.sgi.com
semantics: cumulative counter (converting to rate)
units:     count (converting to count / sec)
samples:   all
interval:  1.00 sec

               hda                   sda                   sdb    
               2.015                 2.015                 0.0    
               0.0                   0.0                   0.0    
               0.0                   0.0                   0.0    
               7.999                 7.999                 0.0    
               0.0                   0.0                   0.0    
               0.0                   0.0                   0.0    
               0.0                   0.0                   0.0    

blocks per sec in and out are also available.

the sard patch extends this to per partition stats.


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From:   "Brian K" 
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Subject: Other ports of PCP?
Date:   Wed, 29 Mar 2000 04:39:01 GMT
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I think it's Really Cool that SGI has given new life to PCP by
releasing it as open source.

In a past life I used it to monitor Origin 2000 systems.
Unfortunately my current environment is largely devoid of SGI's.  I
sure miss IRIX!  Fortunately, we have Linux.  PCP is a natural there.

Then there are the Tru64 Alphas.  Don't even get me started on how
pathetic AdvFS is compared to XFS (I can't wait to toast the Alphas
with XFS on IA32 ;-)

Getting PCP up and running on our Tru64 Alphas really greases the
skids for using PCP on a broader scale.

I've begun porting the code.  So far things are going pretty well.
With not too much effort I have pmcd up and talking.

I also have some Sun and HP boxes to deal with, so I expect to be
playing there soon.

Is anyone else working on PCP ports?

There was some talk a while back about the viz tools being available
as part of ACE.  I need to follow-up with my SGI contacts about that.
Has anyone confirmed whether they are available separately?

I wouldn't mind supporting the efforts of the PCP team by purchasing
the viz tools.

Keep up the great work!

  Brian


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com


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On Wed, 29 Mar 2000, Brian K wrote:

> 
> Then there are the Tru64 Alphas.  Don't even get me started on how
> pathetic AdvFS is compared to XFS (I can't wait to toast the Alphas
> with XFS on IA32 ;-)

XFS on IA32 is coming ...

> 
> Getting PCP up and running on our Tru64 Alphas really greases the
> skids for using PCP on a broader scale.
> 
> I've begun porting the code.  So far things are going pretty well.
> With not too much effort I have pmcd up and talking.

OK good. Now you're going to have to write the Tru64 platform PMDA,
(to support at least the metrics you're interested in). There is plenty
of documentation available (see the Performance Co-Pilot Programmers Guide,
available on-line from SGI's techpubs (http://techpubs.sgi.com) and
plentry of example src (see the "trivial" PMDA for example).

> 
> I also have some Sun and HP boxes to deal with, so I expect to be
> playing there soon.

Same again. Getting the libraries ported and pmcd going is the easy bit.
There was once an HP platform PMDA, but it was never finished and
never escaped.

> 
> Is anyone else working on PCP ports?

Open source pcp has been ported to other linux platforms (linux-alpha
and linux-ppc), but so far as I know, no other non-linux platforms.
We could do it for IRIX but there's little point since the IRIX PCP
is still available, supported and shipped as part of IRIX. Also, the open
source PCP fully interoperates with IRIX PCP.

> 
> There was some talk a while back about the viz tools being available
> as part of ACE.  I need to follow-up with my SGI contacts about that.

The "pcp-pro" product (aka viz tools) is included as part of ACE
(Advanced Cluster Environment) and ISE (Internet Server Environment)
products currently available from SGI.

> Has anyone confirmed whether they are available separately?
> 

They are not available separately and there are no plans to do so either.
IMHO you should be able to purchase pcp-pro by itself, but SGI marketing
disagree, so you'll have to purchase ACE or ISE. I don't know (but should)
if you can just purchase the ACE/ISE CDs, or whether you have to actually
purchase SGI hardware too: both ACE and ISE are hardware products with
software bundles. PCP's role, from the marketing perspective, is to
provide "value-add".

> I wouldn't mind supporting the efforts of the PCP team by purchasing
> the viz tools.
> 

Thanks! 

-- Mark Goodwin
   SGI Engineering