From owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Wed Sep 5 15:10:21 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) id f85MALi32755 for ogl-sample-outgoing; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:10:21 -0700 Received: from zok.sgi.com (zok.sgi.com [204.94.215.101]) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) with SMTP id f85MAId32752 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:10:18 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by zok.sgi.com (8.11.4/8.11.4/linux-outbound_gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id f85MADJ18492 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:10:13 -0700 Received: from oddhack.engr.sgi.com (oddhack.engr.sgi.com [130.62.54.158]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA41617 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:09:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oddhack.engr.sgi.com (Postfix, from userid 34316) id 4B2EEF998; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:08:12 -0700 From: Jon Leech To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: [ogl-sample] OpenGL-SI 1.3 Message-ID: <20010905150812.A9026@oddhack.engr.sgi.com> References: <01082619173401.08239@rogue> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <01082619173401.08239@rogue>; from laguest@nebulas.demon.co.uk on Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 07:17:34PM +0100 Sender: owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 07:17:34PM +0100, Luke A. Guest wrote: > Hi, > > I was just wondering when the updated SI will be available from CVS? Hi Luke, Brian is essentially correct. We open sourced the SI partly to assist PI's efforts to do Linux 3D infrastructure, and partly to enable our commercial licensees to open source their own hardware drivers. None of them have done so yet, unfortunately (I think 3dfx might have had they stayed in business, and I know of one or two others who are still thinking about it). With Mesa providing the XFree86 infrastructure, the commercial OpenGL drivers all remaining proprietary, and our group being heavily overloaded with other responsibilities, we don't think there's reason for SGI to do significant further enhancements to the SI core renderer at this point. We'll continue to do a few enhancements to the GLX protocol infrastructure, and I'll get the 1.3 spec files out shortly, but don't expect much beyond that until and unless one of our licensees wants to do some joint work. Jon Leech SGI From owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Wed Sep 5 15:18:39 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) id f85MIdR00560 for ogl-sample-outgoing; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:18:39 -0700 Received: from zok.sgi.com (zok.sgi.com [204.94.215.101]) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) with SMTP id f85MIad00550 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:18:36 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by zok.sgi.com (8.11.4/8.11.4/linux-outbound_gateway-1.0) with ESMTP id f85MIUJ18790 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:18:30 -0700 Received: from oddhack.engr.sgi.com (oddhack.engr.sgi.com [130.62.54.158]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA38577 for ; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oddhack.engr.sgi.com (Postfix, from userid 34316) id 2986CF998; Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 15:16:30 -0700 From: Jon Leech To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: [ogl-sample] OpenGL-SI 1.3 Message-ID: <20010905151630.B9026@oddhack.engr.sgi.com> References: <01082619173401.08239@rogue> <01082717502404.08239@rogue> <3B8A7ADB.78110E10@valinux.com> <01082718351605.08239@rogue> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <01082718351605.08239@rogue>; from laguest@nebulas.demon.co.uk on Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:35:16PM +0100 Sender: owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com On Mon, Aug 27, 2001 at 06:35:16PM +0100, Luke A. Guest wrote: > Do you think that SGI will retract the openness of the SI now that OpenML is > available? No! (I'm unclear on why the question even came up - has someone been spreading silly rumors again?) Anyway, we couldn't "retract the openness" even if we wanted to, since the SI code is under an open source license. OpenML is a set of low-level APIs for digital media, most of which are orthogonal to OpenGL (although OpenGL 1.2 + a handful of OpenGL extensions are required for a fully compliant OpenML implementation). By far the majority of the OpenML standards work went into ML, and ML is basically SGI's dmSDK with the names changed a bit. dmSDK was open sourced on oss.sgi.com a long time ago. I believe the digital media folks here are planning to update the open source dmSDK to an open source ML within a few months, as IHVs get closer to shipping ML-capable hardware. Jon Leech SGI From owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Fri Sep 7 18:39:14 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) id f881dEu24549 for ogl-sample-outgoing; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:39:14 -0700 Received: from blueyonder.co.uk (pcow028o.blueyonder.co.uk [195.188.53.124]) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) with SMTP id f881dAd24537 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 18:39:10 -0700 Received: from rogue ([62.31.4.162]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Sat, 8 Sep 2001 02:39:22 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Luke A. Guest" To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: [ogl-sample] OpenGL-SI 1.3 Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 02:37:54 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <01082619173401.08239@rogue> <20010905150812.A9026@oddhack.engr.sgi.com> In-Reply-To: <20010905150812.A9026@oddhack.engr.sgi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01090802375408.01001@rogue> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com On Wednesday 05 September 2001 23:08, you wrote: > On Sun, Aug 26, 2001 at 07:17:34PM +0100, Luke A. Guest wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I was just wondering when the updated SI will be available from CVS? > > Hi Luke, > > Brian is essentially correct. We open sourced the SI partly to > assist PI's efforts to do Linux 3D infrastructure, and partly to enable > our commercial licensees to open source their own hardware drivers. None > of them have done so yet, unfortunately (I think 3dfx might have had > they stayed in business, and I know of one or two others who are still > thinking about it). Yeah, but at least they released the Avenger docs ;-) > With Mesa providing the XFree86 infrastructure, the commercial > OpenGL drivers all remaining proprietary, and our group being heavily > overloaded with other responsibilities, we don't think there's reason > for SGI to do significant further enhancements to the SI core renderer > at this point. I think as long as SGi do *not* turn their backs on the Open source OpenGL SI. I see this as being a way for hobbyist/3rd party OS developers to include OpenGL in their OSes without having to pay extortionate rates. This will/may come into play when/if the OS in question developes further. An example of this is AmigaDE - currently, I also see AtheOS as being capable in the future. But if SGi want OpenGL to be viable, they need to continue with their work on OpenGL-SI. > We'll continue to do a few enhancements to the GLX protocol > infrastructure, and I'll get the 1.3 spec files out shortly, but don't > expect much beyond that until and unless one of our licensees wants to > do some joint work. Well, we already have the OpenGL 1.3 specification PDf out, what we actualy need is the SI for OpenGL. BTW, will SGi be retracting the Opensourceness of the SI? I ask because I have heard that OpenML is closed :-( Luke. From owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Fri Sep 7 19:14:26 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) id f882EQF25143 for ogl-sample-outgoing; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:14:26 -0700 Received: from deliverator.sgi.com (deliverator.sgi.com [204.94.214.10]) by oss.sgi.com (8.11.2/8.11.3) with SMTP id f882EPd25139 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:14:25 -0700 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by deliverator.sgi.com (980309.SGI.8.8.8-aspam-6.2/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id TAA05124 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:14:30 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (ljp@oddhack.engr.sgi.com) Received: from oddhack.engr.sgi.com (oddhack.engr.sgi.com [130.62.54.158]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23820 for ; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:13:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oddhack.engr.sgi.com (Postfix, from userid 34316) id DEA27F998; Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2001 19:12:17 -0700 From: Jon Leech To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: [ogl-sample] OpenGL-SI 1.3 Message-ID: <20010907191217.A19515@oddhack.engr.sgi.com> References: <01082619173401.08239@rogue> <20010905150812.A9026@oddhack.engr.sgi.com> <01090802375408.01001@rogue> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.15i In-Reply-To: <01090802375408.01001@rogue>; from laguest@nebulas.demon.co.uk on Sat, Sep 08, 2001 at 02:37:54AM +0100 Sender: owner-ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ogl-sample@oss.sgi.com On Sat, Sep 08, 2001 at 02:37:54AM +0100, Luke A. Guest wrote: > BTW, will SGi be retracting the Opensourceness of the SI? I ask because I > have heard that OpenML is closed :-( I believe I already responded to much the same question in a previous message, but no, we are not doing anything to change the SI license. OpenML has nothing to do with the SI, for that matter. You can't meaningfully talk about OpenML being "closed" or "open" in the OSI sense, because OpenML is not source code; OpenML is a specification for a set of APIs. The Khronos group intends for there to be open source implementations of those APIs, just as the SI and Mesa are open source implementations of the OpenGL API. I'm sure there will also be closed source implementations from some vendors. Jon Leech SGI