From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 05:07:35 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 05:07:25 -0700 Received: from smtp-out.netactive.net ([196.22.160.30]:60685 "HELO smtp-out.netactive.net") by oss.sgi.com with SMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 05:06:58 -0700 Received: (qmail 27821 invoked from network); 1 May 2000 12:11:03 -0000 Received: from ctpm31-108.netactive.co.za (HELO chippo.netactive.co.za) (root@196.22.170.108) by smtp-out.netactive.net with SMTP; 1 May 2000 12:11:03 -0000 Received: from netactive.co.za (IDENT:chippo@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by chippo.netactive.co.za (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02330; Mon, 1 May 2000 14:09:37 +0200 Message-ID: <390D7400.270B61EB@netactive.co.za> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:09:36 +0200 From: Chris the Elder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Gooch CC: devfs@oss.sgi.com, chippo@cequrux.com Subject: Re: probeall not understood References: <390B687E.F27AA376@netactive.co.za> <200004300654.e3U6sqn17695@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing > Do you have modutils 2.3.10 installed? That's the problem. I installed 2.3.11. I hope that's also OK. I was just about to winge that some mention of this modutils thing should be in the FAQ, but I just saw it in Documentation/Changes. Oops. Cheers, chippo From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 05:56:06 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 05:55:46 -0700 Received: from smtp-out.netactive.net ([196.22.160.30]:37393 "HELO smtp-out.netactive.net") by oss.sgi.com with SMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 05:55:27 -0700 Received: (qmail 2607 invoked from network); 1 May 2000 12:59:29 -0000 Received: from ctpm34-225.netactive.co.za (HELO chippo.netactive.co.za) (root@196.22.170.225) by smtp-out.netactive.net with SMTP; 1 May 2000 12:59:29 -0000 Received: from netactive.co.za (IDENT:chippo@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by chippo.netactive.co.za (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01279 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 14:51:07 +0200 Message-ID: <390D7DBB.F6FF3275@netactive.co.za> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 14:51:07 +0200 From: Chris the Elder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Greetings, I'm using kernel 2.3.99-pre6, devfs-patch-v165, devfsd-v1.3.8 and modutils-2.3.11-1. I have built ppp and serial as modules. I found that I needed to put: ------------------- alias ppp0 ppp_generic ------------------- in /etc/modules.conf, to get anything started. Why didn't devfsd work this out without the extra hint? I have: ------------------- REGISTER .* MKOLDCOMPAT UNREGISTER .* RMOLDCOMPAT LOOKUP .* MODLOAD ------------------- in /etc/devfsd.conf. The much more important problem is that after dialing, during what seems to be the ppp negotiation, pppd dies, leaving: ------------------- WvDial: PPP negotiation detected. pppd[1234]: Serial connection established. modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 pppd[1234]: ioctl(TIOCSETD): Invalid argument(22) pppd[1234]: Hangup (SIGHUP) pppd[1234]: Exit. ------------------- in the logs. Anyone know what this means and how to fix it? Cheers, chippo From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 05:58:46 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 05:58:36 -0700 Received: from smtp-out.netactive.net ([196.22.160.30]:29956 "HELO smtp-out.netactive.net") by oss.sgi.com with SMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 05:58:28 -0700 Received: (qmail 3546 invoked from network); 1 May 2000 13:02:29 -0000 Received: from ctpm34-225.netactive.co.za (HELO chippo.netactive.co.za) (root@196.22.170.225) by smtp-out.netactive.net with SMTP; 1 May 2000 13:02:29 -0000 Received: from netactive.co.za (IDENT:chippo@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by chippo.netactive.co.za (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00818 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 15:06:46 +0200 Message-ID: <390D8166.ED1D2AB1@netactive.co.za> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:06:46 +0200 From: Chris the Elder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: bug in FAQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Greets, In the on-line FAQ at sez: ------------------- Module autoloading Another thing [...snip...] correct operation. You will also need to configure devfsd to enable module autoloading. The following lines should be placed in your /etc/devfsd.conf: REGISTER .* MODLOAD -------------------- Surely this should read: LOOKUP .* MODLOAD Cheers, chippo From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 06:53:37 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 06:53:27 -0700 Received: from smtp-rt-7.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.19.161]:11993 "EHLO embelia.wanadoo.fr") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 06:53:09 -0700 Received: from antholoma.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.153) by embelia.wanadoo.fr; 1 May 2000 15:53:07 +0200 Received: from wanadoo.fr (193.251.66.156) by antholoma.wanadoo.fr; 1 May 2000 15:53:07 +0200 Message-ID: <390D8C41.D7E2A4D2@wanadoo.fr> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:53:05 +0200 From: Martin Costabel Organization: Chez moi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6 ppc) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris the Elder CC: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 References: <390D7DBB.F6FF3275@netactive.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Chris the Elder wrote: > > Greetings, > > I'm using kernel 2.3.99-pre6, devfs-patch-v165, > devfsd-v1.3.8 and modutils-2.3.11-1. I have built > ppp and serial as modules. I found that I needed to > put: > ------------------- > alias ppp0 ppp_generic [] > modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 > pppd[1234]: ioctl(TIOCSETD): Invalid argument(22) > pppd[1234]: Hangup (SIGHUP) > pppd[1234]: Exit. > ------------------- > in the logs. Anyone know what this means > and how to fix it? Did you read the paragraph about PPP in Documentation/Changes? -- Martin From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 07:42:07 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 07:41:57 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:42116 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 07:41:41 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e41EfTZ02875; Mon, 1 May 2000 08:41:29 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 08:41:29 -0600 Message-Id: <200005011441.e41EfTZ02875@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: Chris the Elder Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: bug in FAQ In-Reply-To: <390D8166.ED1D2AB1@netactive.co.za> References: <390D8166.ED1D2AB1@netactive.co.za> Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Chris the Elder writes: > Greets, > > In the on-line FAQ at sez: > ------------------- > Module autoloading > > Another thing [...snip...] correct operation. > > You will also need to configure devfsd to enable module autoloading. The > following lines should be placed in your /etc/devfsd.conf: > > REGISTER .* MODLOAD > -------------------- > > Surely this should read: > LOOKUP .* MODLOAD Indeed it should. Thanks. Fixed. Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 07:50:07 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 07:49:57 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:43396 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 07:49:38 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e41EnWl02971; Mon, 1 May 2000 08:49:32 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 08:49:32 -0600 Message-Id: <200005011449.e41EnWl02971@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: Chris the Elder Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 In-Reply-To: <390D7DBB.F6FF3275@netactive.co.za> References: <390D7DBB.F6FF3275@netactive.co.za> Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Chris the Elder writes: > Greetings, > > I'm using kernel 2.3.99-pre6, devfs-patch-v165, > devfsd-v1.3.8 and modutils-2.3.11-1. I have built > ppp and serial as modules. I found that I needed to > put: > ------------------- > alias ppp0 ppp_generic > ------------------- > in /etc/modules.conf, to get anything started. > > Why didn't devfsd work this out without the extra hint? It's not devfsd which has to know about this, but modload has to know, and that's set up in /etc/modules.conf. I've updated the sample modules.conf in Documentation/filesystems/devfs. Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 08:12:27 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 08:12:18 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:49284 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 08:11:55 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e41FB5n03449; Mon, 1 May 2000 09:11:05 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 09:11:05 -0600 Message-Id: <200005011511.e41FB5n03449@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca Subject: [PATCH] devfs v167 available Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Hi, all. Version 167 of my devfs patch is now available from: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~rgooch/linux/kernel-patches.html The devfs FAQ is also available here. This work has been sponsored by SGI. Patch directly available from: ftp://ftp.atnf.csiro.au/pub/people/rgooch/linux/kernel-patches/v2.3/devfs-patch-current.gz NOTE: there is a whole new FAQ for devfs which is bigger and better: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~rgooch/linux/docs/devfs.html I've put a lot of work into fixing the deficiencies in the previous one. I hope it shows :-) This is against 2.3.99-pre6. Highlights of this release: - Updated Documentation/filesystems/devfs/README - Updated sample modules.conf Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 16:59:30 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 16:59:20 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:35461 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 16:59:17 -0700 Received: from dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca [136.159.55.130]) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e41NwDK08375 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 17:58:14 -0600 Received: from eising.k-net.dk (eising.k-net.dtu.dk [130.225.71.227]) by dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e41NwCo05520 for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 17:58:13 -0600 Received: from k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk (k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk [192.38.215.253]) by eising.k-net.dk (Postfix) with SMTP id F413CC1A7 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 01:58:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (HELO k4315.kampsax.dtu.dk) (rask@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 1 May 2000 23:56:46 -0000 Date: 2 May 2000 1:24:38 +0200 From: "Rask Ingemann Lambertsen" Subject: Re: [WARNING] devfs mount default changed To: "Linux kernel mailing list" In-Reply-To: <200004301902.e3UJ2eW21010@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> Message-ID: <861.157T1900T844696rask-linux@kampsax.k-net.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Organization: Me? Organised? Dream on... X-Files: The truth is out there. Cc: devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca X-Mailer: THOR 2.6a (Amiga;TCP/IP) Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Den 30-Apr-00 21:02:40 skrev Richard Gooch fĝlgende om "[WARNING] devfs mount default changed": >If this is not present, add "devfs=mount" to your boot options. And do it while you can still boot the old kernel if you use LILO, since devfs=mount at the LILO prompt is a no-op (at least as far as devfs is concerned), as I found out the hard way. Regards, /ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻTŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\ | Rask Ingemann Lambertsen | E-mail: mailto:rask@kampsax.dtu.dk | | Please do NOT Cc: to me or the | WWW: http://www.gbar.dtu.dk/~c948374/ | | mailing list. I am on the list.| "ThrustMe" on XPilot, ARCnet and IRC | | LOAD "emacs",8,1 | From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 1 17:10:20 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:10 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:37253 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 1 May 2000 17:10:01 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4209i608472; Mon, 1 May 2000 18:09:44 -0600 Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:09:44 -0600 Message-Id: <200005020009.e4209i608472@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: "Rask Ingemann Lambertsen" Cc: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: [WARNING] devfs mount default changed In-Reply-To: <861.157T1900T844696rask-linux@kampsax.k-net.dk> References: <200004301902.e3UJ2eW21010@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> <861.157T1900T844696rask-linux@kampsax.k-net.dk> Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Rask Ingemann Lambertsen writes: > Den 30-Apr-00 21:02:40 skrev Richard Gooch fĝlgende om "[WARNING] devfs mount default changed": > > >If this is not present, add "devfs=mount" to your boot options. > > And do it while you can still boot the old kernel if you use > LILO, since devfs=mount at the LILO prompt is a no-op (at least as > far as devfs is concerned), as I found out the hard way. I don't understand what you mean. Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Tue May 2 02:56:15 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:56:06 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:30080 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:55:43 -0700 Received: from dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca [136.159.55.130]) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e429sp103694 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 03:54:51 -0600 Received: from nifty.Blue-Labs.org (nifty.blue-labs.org [208.179.0.193]) by dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e429sqo10767 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 03:54:53 -0600 Received: from kalifornia.com (david@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nifty.Blue-Labs.org (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id CAA00472; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:53:55 -0700 Message-ID: <390EA5B2.2753FA0A@kalifornia.com> Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 02:53:54 -0700 From: David Ford Reply-To: david+validemail@kalifornia.com Organization: Talon Technology, Intl. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6-5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Garzik CC: Richard Gooch , linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca Subject: Re: [WARNING] devfs mount default changed References: <200004301902.e3UJ2eW21010@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> <390C8637.D2ED49D3@mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Jeff Garzik wrote: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > Hi, all. The default mounting behaviour for devfs has changed > > recently :-( > > Thanks to the default mounting behavior change, people can compile devfs > into their kernels without being forced to use it. Unfortunately that means everyone who has been using it for the last two years now has to change things. It's really annoying and breaks "least surprise." If you choose to add a new option such as devfs to your kernel, you are responsible for following through on reading the documentation and performing the necessary steps. Please put it back the way it was or make it a .config option. > > If your system no longer boots correctly (a typical > > message is "Unable to open initial console"), you may have been caught > > by this change. Look for the boot message: > > Mounted devfs on /dev > > If there is a script that prints out a message "mounted devfs on /dev" > but didn't really do so, that sounds like a bug. > > Jeff Please quote things correctly: >by this change. Look for the boot message: >Mounted devfs on /dev > >If this is not present, add "devfs=mount" to your boot options. a) it's not a script, it's in the source, please be more familiar with what you're chatting about. b) you're implying a bug exists where one clearly doesn't which is FUDding. c) Richard clearly said, "if this doesn't exist, do this" which means "devfs didn't get mounted, so tell the kernel to mount it next time." -d From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Tue May 2 02:58:16 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:58:05 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:31616 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:57:56 -0700 Received: from dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca [136.159.55.130]) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e429v9103744 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 03:57:09 -0600 Received: from nifty.Blue-Labs.org (nifty.blue-labs.org [208.179.0.193]) by dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e429vBo10792 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 03:57:11 -0600 Received: from kalifornia.com (david@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nifty.Blue-Labs.org (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id CAA00478; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:56:37 -0700 Message-ID: <390EA654.723BC0BB@kalifornia.com> Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 02:56:36 -0700 From: David Ford Reply-To: david+validemail@kalifornia.com Organization: Talon Technology, Intl. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6-5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Richard Gooch CC: Jeff Garzik , linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca Subject: Re: [WARNING] devfs mount default changed References: <200004301902.e3UJ2eW21010@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> <390C8637.D2ED49D3@mandrakesoft.com> <200004301925.e3UJPNh21434@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Richard Gooch wrote: > Of course, they could before as well: just add "devfs=nomount". Your > patch just made it more convenient to some people, at the cost of > breaking existing behaviour (and making it inconvenient to others). very. > Hm. Maybe I should add a config option to control the default. _please_ do. -d From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Tue May 2 03:03:36 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 03:03:26 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:33664 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 03:03:19 -0700 Received: from dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca [136.159.55.130]) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e42A2c103839 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 04:02:38 -0600 Received: from nifty.Blue-Labs.org (nifty.blue-labs.org [208.179.0.193]) by dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e42A2co10853 for ; Tue, 2 May 2000 04:02:38 -0600 Received: from kalifornia.com (david@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nifty.Blue-Labs.org (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id DAA00488; Tue, 2 May 2000 03:01:25 -0700 Message-ID: <390EA774.4EE5E41C@kalifornia.com> Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 03:01:24 -0700 From: David Ford Reply-To: david+validemail@kalifornia.com Organization: Talon Technology, Intl. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6-5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tigran Aivazian CC: Richard Gooch , Jeff Garzik , linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca Subject: Re: [WARNING] devfs mount default changed References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Tigran Aivazian wrote: > Hi Richard, > > On Sun, 30 Apr 2000, Richard Gooch wrote: > > Of course, they could before as well: just add "devfs=nomount". > > not if they use LILO and their current command line is very close to 79 > byte limit :) or now those of use that mount it by default must check that limit. nothing has been gained, only irritation has shifted from one side to another and caused a ruckus because something has changed that has the impact of completely works/completely doesn't work. the only thing that has happened here is that we're playing a game of opinions. i am certainly biased because i want the mounting on by default. i feel that the author should have his say "by default". i suggest that Richard forward all emails about why devfs just broke to the person(s) who decided to change it's de facto setting. it's rude to subject the author to a flood of emails like this. -d From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Thu May 4 22:28:43 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Thu, 4 May 2000 22:28:33 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:37766 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Thu, 4 May 2000 22:28:12 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e455RKM27457; Thu, 4 May 2000 23:27:20 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 23:27:20 -0600 Message-Id: <200005050527.e455RKM27457@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca Subject: [PATCH] devfs v99.12 available Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Hi, all. Version 99.12 of my devfs patch is now available from: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~rgooch/linux/kernel-patches.html The devfs FAQ is also available here. This work has been sponsored by SGI. Patch directly available from: ftp://ftp.atnf.csiro.au/pub/people/rgooch/linux/kernel-patches/v2.2/devfs-patch-current.gz NOTE: the devfs-patch-v99.x patches are maintenance patches for the 2.2.x production kernels. Devfs development is done against recent development kernels. Occasionally, the latest devfs patch for the development kernels may be backported to 2.2.x series, but this happens rarely. This is against 2.2.15. Highlights of this release: - Ported devfs-patch-v99.11 to kernel 2.2.15 - Moved joystick devices to /dev/joysticks - Set inode->i_size to correct size for symlinks - Removed Documentation/filesystems/devfs/mk-devlinks - Don't create missing directories in - Updated sample modules.conf - Fixed bug in drivers/block/ide-probe.c when secondary but no primary - Updated Documentation/filesystems/devfs/README Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Sun May 7 04:07:48 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Sun, 7 May 2000 04:07:39 -0700 Received: from smtp-out.netactive.net ([196.22.160.30]:19219 "HELO smtp-out.netactive.net") by oss.sgi.com with SMTP id ; Sun, 7 May 2000 04:07:19 -0700 Received: (qmail 30870 invoked from network); 7 May 2000 11:11:13 -0000 Received: from ctpm32-136.netactive.co.za (HELO chippo.netactive.co.za) (root@196.22.170.136) by smtp-out.netactive.net with SMTP; 7 May 2000 11:11:13 -0000 Received: from netactive.co.za (IDENT:chippo@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by chippo.netactive.co.za (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA01564 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 13:07:01 +0200 Message-ID: <39154E55.EEBDADA7@netactive.co.za> Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 13:07:01 +0200 From: Chris the Elder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: the mount thing (again) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing I had no problem with my machine, 'cos I use lilo. However, the diskless workstation which currently boots off floppy, and eventually off bootprom, currently can't run devfsd ('cos /dev isn't mounted). What is the best way to deal with this problem? TIA, chippo From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Sun May 7 05:31:09 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Sun, 7 May 2000 05:31:00 -0700 Received: from smtp-out.netactive.net ([196.22.160.30]:18958 "HELO smtp-out.netactive.net") by oss.sgi.com with SMTP id ; Sun, 7 May 2000 05:30:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 1710 invoked from network); 7 May 2000 12:34:28 -0000 Received: from ctpm31-93.netactive.co.za (HELO chippo.netactive.co.za) (root@196.22.170.93) by smtp-out.netactive.net with SMTP; 7 May 2000 12:34:27 -0000 Received: from netactive.co.za (IDENT:chippo@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by chippo.netactive.co.za (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA01807 for ; Sun, 7 May 2000 14:30:12 +0200 Message-ID: <391561D4.C27E7BD@netactive.co.za> Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 14:30:12 +0200 From: Chris the Elder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: the mount thing (again) References: <39154E55.EEBDADA7@netactive.co.za> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Chris the Elder wrote: > What is the best way to deal with this problem? Oops (again). I've just seen that: [PATCH] devfs v166 provides a new config option. Sorry, chippo From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Sun May 7 09:36:21 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Sun, 7 May 2000 09:36:12 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:61321 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Sun, 7 May 2000 09:35:48 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e47GZJw19812; Sun, 7 May 2000 10:35:19 -0600 Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 10:35:19 -0600 Message-Id: <200005071635.e47GZJw19812@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: Chris the Elder Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: the mount thing (again) In-Reply-To: <39154E55.EEBDADA7@netactive.co.za> References: <39154E55.EEBDADA7@netactive.co.za> Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Chris the Elder writes: > I had no problem with my machine, 'cos I use lilo. > > However, the diskless workstation which currently > boots off floppy, and eventually off bootprom, currently > can't run devfsd ('cos /dev isn't mounted). You can install LILO on a boot floppy too, you know. Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Tue May 9 04:46:40 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 04:46:30 +0000 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:38796 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 04:46:19 +0000 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e494jSR09878; Mon, 8 May 2000 22:45:28 -0600 Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:45:28 -0600 Message-Id: <200005090445.e494jSR09878@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca Subject: [PATCH] devfs v99.13 available Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Hi, all. Version 99.13 of my devfs patch is now available from: http://www.atnf.csiro.au/~rgooch/linux/kernel-patches.html The devfs FAQ is also available here. This work has been sponsored by SGI. Patch directly available from: ftp://ftp.atnf.csiro.au/pub/people/rgooch/linux/kernel-patches/v2.2/devfs-patch-current.gz NOTE: the devfs-patch-v99.x patches are maintenance patches for the 2.2.x production kernels. Devfs development is done against recent development kernels. Occasionally, the latest devfs patch for the development kernels may be backported to 2.2.x series, but this happens rarely. This is against 2.2.15. Highlights of this release: - Added support for network block devices Thanks to Christian Czezatke Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Tue May 9 05:20:21 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 05:20:10 +0000 Received: from nat-su-33.valinux.com ([198.186.202.33]:6433 "EHLO phenoxide.su.varesearch.com") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 05:19:45 +0000 Received: (from jerdfelt@localhost) by phenoxide.su.varesearch.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01879 for devfs@oss.sgi.com; Mon, 8 May 2000 22:19:45 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 22:19:45 -0700 From: Johannes Erdfelt To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: devfs and device name persistance Message-ID: <20000508221945.A1842@valinux.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing With more and more Hot Swap device busses becoming common, naming of devices is starting to become a problem. As an example, I'll use 2 USB floppy drives. Since they are floppy drives, the media and thusly filesystems can change frequently. This makes existing emerging userspace only solutions lacking in functionality. The current favored scheme which falls into the previous group is mounting filesystems based on UUID. ext2 and mount(8) supports this. When I plug the first USB floppy drive ("floppy A") in, I would like it to always appear at one name in the filesystem. I will use the arbitrary filename /dev/floppy0. The second USB floppy drive ("floppy B") I would always like to appear at /dev/floppy1. With the current implementation in Linux, floppy drives are numbered on a first come first served basis. If floppy A is plugged in first, it will be called /dev/fd0 (actually, most USB floppies are SCSI devices and would thusly be called /dev/sda, but for simplicity we ignore this). Then if floppy B is plugged after floppy A, it is called /dev/fd1. However, if floppy B is plugged in first, it will be named /dev/fd0. This causes problems with USB, and other hot swap busses, because the order of devices being connected, is effectively random. The first problem is being able to differentiate between similar devices. USB has the notion of a serial number, however not all devices provide one. Most storage devices do however, which is the reason I'm using floppies as my example. Now that we have a unique way of differentiating 2 seemingly identical devices, our next problem is how to store this information. This is where devfsd comes in. I'd like to use devfsd to track this information. How it does this is not too important right now. The last problem is name space conflict. There may be a real device called /dev/floppy0. A possible solution that has been discussed is to mount the devfs filesystem on /devices (completely aribtrary name) and create symlinks between the virtual names on /dev to the physical names on /devices. What I'd like to get is some opinions on this. I have a reservation towards putting so much into devfsd. I fear it may become too complicated. There's obviously some unknowns and I'd like to pursue an implementation to try it out and see if there are some unforseen problems, but I'd like to see if anyone else has any better ideas or any problems. Also, not all devices can be differentiated. However, we can do some things. For instance, we can determine which port a device is plugged into and create a topology tree. This way, we can differentiate 2 mice. However, if the device is moved to another port, the mouse would be "new". JE From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Tue May 9 05:35:21 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 05:35:00 +0000 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:42892 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 05:34:30 +0000 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e495YQ910398; Mon, 8 May 2000 23:34:26 -0600 Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:34:26 -0600 Message-Id: <200005090534.e495YQ910398@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: Johannes Erdfelt Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: devfs and device name persistance In-Reply-To: <20000508221945.A1842@valinux.com> References: <20000508221945.A1842@valinux.com> Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Johannes Erdfelt writes: > With more and more Hot Swap device busses becoming common, naming of devices > is starting to become a problem. > > As an example, I'll use 2 USB floppy drives. Since they are floppy drives, > the media and thusly filesystems can change frequently. [...] > The first problem is being able to differentiate between similar > devices. USB has the notion of a serial number, however not all > devices provide one. Most storage devices do however, which is the > reason I'm using floppies as my example. > > Now that we have a unique way of differentiating 2 seemingly identical > devices, our next problem is how to store this information. This is > where devfsd comes in. I'd like to use devfsd to track this information. > How it does this is not too important right now. > > The last problem is name space conflict. > > There may be a real device called /dev/floppy0. A possible solution > that has been discussed is to mount the devfs filesystem on /devices > (completely aribtrary name) and create symlinks between the virtual > names on /dev to the physical names on /devices. I think any move that promotes mounting devfs elsewhere is going to come back and hurt us in the future. /dev should be the only place that applications (and administrators) look for device files. As soon as we start seeing people (distributions) mounting devfs on /devfs, we will see applications looking in multiple places for device nodes. This will inevitably cause confusion, and once done, will be very hard to fix. And having a pile of symlinks doesn't really solve the namespace problem, because you can always come up with some name that will conflict. And besides, a /dev full of symlinks is going to be butt-ugly. I think the only solution to namespace conflicts is to admit that it is real and has to be dealt with firmly. This means coming up with a policy and "enforcing" it (i.e. various utilities follow that policy and if you try and change it and it breaks, you get to keep the pieces). However, it probably makes sense to put *all* USB devices under /dev/usb, just like the SCSI and IDE trees. > What I'd like to get is some opinions on this. I have a reservation > towards putting so much into devfsd. I fear it may become too > complicated. Also, I'd want to avoid "solutions" that are really only partial solutions. I think we should just bite the bullet on namespace policy. > Also, not all devices can be differentiated. However, we can do some > things. For instance, we can determine which port a device is > plugged into and create a topology tree. This way, we can > differentiate 2 mice. However, if the device is moved to another > port, the mouse would be "new". Yep. Not much to be done about that. Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Tue May 9 06:05:51 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 06:05:31 +0000 Received: from nat-su-33.valinux.com ([198.186.202.33]:6948 "EHLO phenoxide.su.varesearch.com") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Tue, 9 May 2000 06:05:01 +0000 Received: (from jerdfelt@localhost) by phenoxide.su.varesearch.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01906; Mon, 8 May 2000 23:04:59 -0700 Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:04:59 -0700 From: Johannes Erdfelt To: Richard Gooch Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: devfs and device name persistance Message-ID: <20000508230459.B1842@valinux.com> References: <20000508221945.A1842@valinux.com> <200005090534.e495YQ910398@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005090534.e495YQ910398@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca>; from rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca on Mon, May 08, 2000 at 11:34:26PM -0600 Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing On Mon, May 08, 2000, Richard Gooch wrote: > Johannes Erdfelt writes: > > With more and more Hot Swap device busses becoming common, naming of devices > > is starting to become a problem. > > > > As an example, I'll use 2 USB floppy drives. Since they are floppy drives, > > the media and thusly filesystems can change frequently. > [...] > > The first problem is being able to differentiate between similar > > devices. USB has the notion of a serial number, however not all > > devices provide one. Most storage devices do however, which is the > > reason I'm using floppies as my example. > > > > Now that we have a unique way of differentiating 2 seemingly identical > > devices, our next problem is how to store this information. This is > > where devfsd comes in. I'd like to use devfsd to track this information. > > How it does this is not too important right now. > > > > The last problem is name space conflict. > > > > There may be a real device called /dev/floppy0. A possible solution > > that has been discussed is to mount the devfs filesystem on /devices > > (completely aribtrary name) and create symlinks between the virtual > > names on /dev to the physical names on /devices. > > I think any move that promotes mounting devfs elsewhere is going to > come back and hurt us in the future. /dev should be the only place > that applications (and administrators) look for device files. As soon > as we start seeing people (distributions) mounting devfs on /devfs, we > will see applications looking in multiple places for device > nodes. This will inevitably cause confusion, and once done, will be > very hard to fix. > > And having a pile of symlinks doesn't really solve the namespace > problem, because you can always come up with some name that will > conflict. And besides, a /dev full of symlinks is going to be > butt-ugly. > > I think the only solution to namespace conflicts is to admit that it > is real and has to be dealt with firmly. This means coming up with a > policy and "enforcing" it (i.e. various utilities follow that policy > and if you try and change it and it breaks, you get to keep the > pieces). > > However, it probably makes sense to put *all* USB devices under > /dev/usb, just like the SCSI and IDE trees. Most people are interested in the function rather than the connection. Very similar to how devfs currently create a /dev/discs which has all of the disks on the system. It's an abstracted directory of all disks regardless of it's connection (scsi, ide, usb, etc) Why cannot this be managed by devfsd? It would be a win to move this to userspace versus the kernel where it is now. This has the added benefit of choosing names intelligently. > > What I'd like to get is some opinions on this. I have a reservation > > towards putting so much into devfsd. I fear it may become too > > complicated. > > Also, I'd want to avoid "solutions" that are really only partial > solutions. I think we should just bite the bullet on namespace policy. I'm not exactly sure I understand what you mean. Is there a current problem you're referring to? > > Also, not all devices can be differentiated. However, we can do some > > things. For instance, we can determine which port a device is > > plugged into and create a topology tree. This way, we can > > differentiate 2 mice. However, if the device is moved to another > > port, the mouse would be "new". > > Yep. Not much to be done about that. Well, I'd like to offer it as an option to use that algorithm. Many OS' currently do like Windows and BeOS. JE From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Wed May 10 12:13:54 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Wed, 10 May 2000 19:13:44 +0000 Received: from cm-24-142-61-146.cableco-op.ispchannel.com ([24.142.61.146]:11512 "EHLO nova.botz.org") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Wed, 10 May 2000 19:13:21 +0000 Received: from localhost (IDENT:jbotz@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nova.botz.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22554; Wed, 10 May 2000 12:13:07 -0700 Message-Id: <200005101913.MAA22554@nova.botz.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.1.1 10/15/1999 To: Richard Gooch cc: Johannes Erdfelt , devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: devfs and device name persistance In-Reply-To: Message from Richard Gooch of "Mon, 08 May 2000 23:34:26 MDT." <200005090534.e495YQ910398@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:13:07 -0700 From: Jurgen Botz Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Richard Gooch wrote: > However, it probably makes sense to put *all* USB devices under > /dev/usb, just like the SCSI and IDE trees. The problem with this is that some USB devices are layers underneath more general devices... for example the v4l stuff. Ergo I have the same problem as JE's floppies with my two video inputs: one is a PCI board (BT848) and the other a USB cam. Which one becomes video0 and which video1 depends on the order in which the drivers are loaded... since the drivers are loaded on demand this doesn't work well. Ok, in my specific case I can solve this by just always forcing the bttv driver to load at boot time so that it will always be /dev/v4l/video0, but that's ugly. Also it wouldn't work if I had, say, another video device which was a PCMCIA card. -j From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Wed May 10 12:53:54 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Wed, 10 May 2000 19:53:35 +0000 Received: from nat-su-33.valinux.com ([198.186.202.33]:45616 "EHLO phenoxide.su.varesearch.com") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Wed, 10 May 2000 19:53:17 +0000 Received: (from jerdfelt@localhost) by phenoxide.su.varesearch.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04218; Wed, 10 May 2000 12:53:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:53:09 -0700 From: Johannes Erdfelt To: Jurgen Botz Cc: Richard Gooch , devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: devfs and device name persistance Message-ID: <20000510125309.R1189@valinux.com> References: <200005101913.MAA22554@nova.botz.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <200005101913.MAA22554@nova.botz.org>; from jurgen@botz.org on Wed, May 10, 2000 at 12:13:07PM -0700 Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing On Wed, May 10, 2000, Jurgen Botz wrote: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > However, it probably makes sense to put *all* USB devices under > > /dev/usb, just like the SCSI and IDE trees. > > The problem with this is that some USB devices are layers underneath > more general devices... for example the v4l stuff. Ergo I have the > same problem as JE's floppies with my two video inputs: one is a PCI > board (BT848) and the other a USB cam. Which one becomes video0 and > which video1 depends on the order in which the drivers are loaded... > since the drivers are loaded on demand this doesn't work well. > > Ok, in my specific case I can solve this by just always forcing the > bttv driver to load at boot time so that it will always be > /dev/v4l/video0, but that's ugly. Also it wouldn't work if I had, > say, another video device which was a PCMCIA card. Device naming is a separate problem altogether. I've tried touching on it in the past but I seem to be confusing people even more. JE From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Thu May 11 20:03:28 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Fri, 12 May 2000 03:03:19 +0000 Received: from pneumatic-tube.sgi.com ([204.94.214.22]:57657 "EHLO pneumatic-tube.sgi.com") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Fri, 12 May 2000 03:02:51 +0000 Received: from cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (cthulhu.engr.sgi.com [192.26.80.2]) by pneumatic-tube.sgi.com (980327.SGI.8.8.8-aspam/980310.SGI-aspam) via ESMTP id UAA06141 for ; Thu, 11 May 2000 20:07:16 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (tduffy@dbear.engr.sgi.com) Received: from dbear.engr.sgi.com (dbear.engr.sgi.com [163.154.18.85]) by cthulhu.engr.sgi.com (980427.SGI.8.8.8/970903.SGI.AUTOCF) via ESMTP id TAA67189; Thu, 11 May 2000 19:53:04 -0700 (PDT) mail_from (tduffy@dbear.engr.sgi.com) Received: from localhost (tduffy@localhost) by dbear.engr.sgi.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA19653; Thu, 11 May 2000 19:51:48 -0700 Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:51:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Thomas Duffy To: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca cc: Jeremy Brown , John Wright , devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: DEVFS in ProPack 1.3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing OK, so we have gone most of the distance in getting DEVFS working on our ProPack. We still have a few more problems and I was hoping you could shed some light on these. 1) We have a weird bug where when you mount an IDE CDROM on some machines, the mount point (let's say /mnt/cdrom) changes from a directory to a zero-byte flat file with the epoch as its creation date. It sometimes will mount, but the directory will be empty -- if this happens, the mount table gets real screwed up and you cannot umount the cd or mount it again in another directory because it is already mounted. But, this only happens on some machines...the machines it does happen on, it consistantly has the problem. Others don't seem to face it. If you use a non-DEVFS kernel, mounting works fine. 2) For some reason, devfsd is not creating the proper /dev/vcs links on SuSE 6.4. It works fine on TurboLinux and Red Hat, but on SuSE, these links are not being created which is causing the mingettys on the virtual consoles to not start (except for vcs1 which is weird). 3) /dev/fb0 is not being linked to the correct devfs device. (in the FAQ, it says frame buffers are supported by DEVFS). this does not seem good: [root@counselor /dev]# ls -l fb/ total 0 lr-xr-xr-x 1 root root 0 May 4 13:26 fb0 -> fb0 this also seems to be true for /dev/unikey and /dev/encode-gb which are i18n related patches to the kernel that we include for Chinese and Japanese support. I guess I can use devfsd to add these devices -- is that the best way? or should I hack the boot scripts to mknod these each time the machine boots? Thanks, -tduffy PS, on the devfs FAQ page, where it talks about the /etc/securetty, you may want to mention that if you have login from util-linux 2.10k or greater, you will need to add vc/1-6 instead of 1-6. The same goes for console.perms. Change it to vc/[0-9][0-9]* From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Wed May 17 16:13:10 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Wed, 17 May 2000 23:12:51 +0000 Received: from nat-su-33.valinux.com ([198.186.202.33]:38449 "EHLO phenoxide.su.varesearch.com") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Wed, 17 May 2000 23:12:19 +0000 Received: (from jerdfelt@localhost) by phenoxide.su.varesearch.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16632 for devfs@oss.sgi.com; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:12:18 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:12:18 -0700 From: Johannes Erdfelt To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: small patch + question Message-ID: <20000517161218.C15221@valinux.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Here's a small patch to devfsd to add -export-dynamic while linking so that modules can use exported variables from the executable. Of interest is the syslog_is_open variable so I can use the SYSLOG() variable. On an unrelated point, I have a question about changing permissions and supression. I have a module which dynamically tracks permissions for USB devices and applies them back to the device when it gets plugged back in. In the REGISTER handler, I do a chown/chmod pair (well, fchown/fchmod) which then generates another CHANGE request, causing extra processing since it looks like a user (admin, etc) made a change to file, when it was actually generated by devfsd. Would it be possible for devfs (the kernel portion) to not generate events when the devfsd process (or the process which has .devfsd open) makes changes? I can't see a reason where it would be needed since devfsd is always aware of the changes it makes, since it made them in the first place. JE From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Wed May 17 16:14:51 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Wed, 17 May 2000 23:14:40 +0000 Received: from nat-su-33.valinux.com ([198.186.202.33]:17982 "EHLO phenoxide.su.varesearch.com") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Wed, 17 May 2000 23:14:28 +0000 Received: (from jerdfelt@localhost) by phenoxide.su.varesearch.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16641 for devfs@oss.sgi.com; Wed, 17 May 2000 16:14:27 -0700 Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:14:27 -0700 From: Johannes Erdfelt To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: small patch + question Message-ID: <20000517161427.D15221@valinux.com> References: <20000517161218.C15221@valinux.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1" X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000517161218.C15221@valinux.com>; from jerdfelt@valinux.com on Wed, May 17, 2000 at 04:12:18PM -0700 Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Wed, May 17, 2000, Johannes Erdfelt wrote: > Here's a small patch to devfsd to add -export-dynamic while linking so > that modules can use exported variables from the executable. Of interest > is the syslog_is_open variable so I can use the SYSLOG() variable. And of course the patch (woops). JE --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="devfsd-export.patch" --- GNUmakefile.old Wed May 17 15:58:53 2000 +++ GNUmakefile Wed May 17 11:29:00 2000 @@ -18,7 +18,7 @@ endif devfsd: $(OBJECTS) - cc -O2 -o devfsd $(OBJECTS) $(CFLAGS) -ldl $(LIBS) + cc -O2 -o devfsd $(OBJECTS) $(CFLAGS) -export-dynamic -ldl $(LIBS) install: devfsd rm -f $(SBINDIR)/devfsd --RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1-- From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 22 03:25:46 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 03:25:36 -0700 Received: from smtp-out.netactive.net ([196.22.160.30]:2826 "HELO smtp-out.netactive.net") by oss.sgi.com with SMTP id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 03:25:25 -0700 Received: (qmail 20724 invoked from network); 22 May 2000 10:29:11 -0000 Received: from ctpm33-37.netactive.co.za (HELO chippo.netactive.co.za) (root@196.22.170.37) by smtp-out.netactive.net with SMTP; 22 May 2000 10:29:11 -0000 Received: from netactive.co.za (IDENT:chippo@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by chippo.netactive.co.za (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA02009 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 12:24:22 +0200 Message-ID: <39290AD6.9751E380@netactive.co.za> Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 12:24:22 +0200 From: Chris the Elder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: linux-2.3.99-pre8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Greetings, Am I correct in assuming that I don't need any devfs patch with -pre8? Cheers, chippo From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 22 09:19:19 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:19:10 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:1416 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 09:18:48 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4MGIME18629; Mon, 22 May 2000 10:18:22 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 10:18:22 -0600 Message-Id: <200005221618.e4MGIME18629@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: Chris the Elder Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: linux-2.3.99-pre8 In-Reply-To: <39290AD6.9751E380@netactive.co.za> References: <39290AD6.9751E380@netactive.co.za> Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Chris the Elder writes: > Greetings, > > Am I correct in assuming that I don't > need any devfs patch with -pre8? Correct. Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 22 18:08:54 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 18:08:44 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:53384 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 18:08:31 -0700 Received: from dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca [136.159.55.130]) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id e4N17U027235 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:07:30 -0600 Received: from 21cn.com ([202.104.32.246]) by dmz1.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id e4N17Go16594 for ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:07:16 -0600 Received: from 21cn.com([10.1.0.104]) by 21cn.com(JetMail 2.5.3.0) with SMTP id jm1a3929effd; Tue, 23 May 2000 01:05:02 -0000 Received: from nic.funet.fi([193.166.0.145]) by 21cn.com(JetMail 2.3.2.6) with SMTP id /aimcque/jmail.rcv/2/jm1f390ed8fb; Tue, 2 May 2000 09:53:39 -0000 Received: from vger.rutgers.edu ([128.6.190.2]:16674 "EHLO vger.rutgers.edu" ident: "NO-IDENT-SERVICE[2]" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: ) by nic.funet.fi with ESMTP id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 12:59:32 +0300 Received: by vger.rutgers.edu via listexpand id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:47:29 -0400 Received: by vger.rutgers.edu id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:47:15 -0400 Received: from nifty.blue-labs.org ([208.179.0.193]:18226 "EHLO nifty.Blue-Labs.org") by vger.rutgers.edu with ESMTP id ; Tue, 2 May 2000 05:46:50 -0400 Received: from kalifornia.com (david@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nifty.Blue-Labs.org (8.9.1a/8.9.0) with ESMTP id CAA00472; Tue, 2 May 2000 02:53:55 -0700 Message-ID: <390EA5B2.2753FA0A@kalifornia.com> Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 02:53:54 -0700 From: David Ford Reply-To: david+validemail@kalifornia.com Organization: Talon Technology, Intl. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.3.99-pre6-5 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jeff Garzik CC: Richard Gooch , linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, devfs-announce-list@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca Subject: Re: [WARNING] devfs mount default changed References: <200004301902.e3UJ2eW21010@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> <390C8637.D2ED49D3@mandrakesoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Loop: majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Jeff Garzik wrote: > Richard Gooch wrote: > > Hi, all. The default mounting behaviour for devfs has changed > > recently :-( > > Thanks to the default mounting behavior change, people can compile devfs > into their kernels without being forced to use it. Unfortunately that means everyone who has been using it for the last two years now has to change things. It's really annoying and breaks "least surprise." If you choose to add a new option such as devfs to your kernel, you are responsible for following through on reading the documentation and performing the necessary steps. Please put it back the way it was or make it a .config option. > > If your system no longer boots correctly (a typical > > message is "Unable to open initial console"), you may have been caught > > by this change. Look for the boot message: > > Mounted devfs on /dev > > If there is a script that prints out a message "mounted devfs on /dev" > but didn't really do so, that sounds like a bug. > > Jeff Please quote things correctly: >by this change. Look for the boot message: >Mounted devfs on /dev > >If this is not present, add "devfs=mount" to your boot options. a) it's not a script, it's in the source, please be more familiar with what you're chatting about. b) you're implying a bug exists where one clearly doesn't which is FUDding. c) Richard clearly said, "if this doesn't exist, do this" which means "devfs didn't get mounted, so tell the kernel to mount it next time." -d - To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.rutgers.edu Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/ From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 22 19:35:16 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:34:56 -0700 Received: from firewall-in.sch57.msk.ru ([195.178.195.6]:60421 "EHLO dell.sch57.msk.ru") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 19:34:25 -0700 Received: from khim.UUCP (uucp@localhost) by dell.sch57.msk.ru (8.8.8/8.8.8) with UUCP id GAA21395; Tue, 23 May 2000 06:19:51 +0400 Received: by khim.sch57.msk.ru (dMail for DOS v2.07a2, 12Jun98); Tue, 23 May 2000 06:21:06 +0400 To: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Message-Id: Organization: MCCME From: "Khimenko Victor" Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 06:21:06 +0400 (MSD) X-Mailer: dMail [Demos Mail for DOS v2.07a2] Subject: devfs and device properties Lines: 55 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Looks like devfs handles changes in device ownership just fine. As long as you are not doing anyting apart of changin ownership, that is. No driver unloading, no user process exiting... Here are two samples: -- cut -- # ls -al /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd brw-rw-rw- 1 root root 22, 0 Jan 1 1970 /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd # chown khim.khim /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd # ls -al /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd brw-rw-rw- 1 khim khim 22, 0 Jan 1 1970 /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd # rmmod ide-cd # ls -al /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd brw-rw-rw- 1 khim khim 22, 0 Jan 1 1970 /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd # lsmod | grep ide-cd # rm -f /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd # ls -al /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd ls: /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd: No such file or directory # modprobe ide-cd hdc: ATAPI 40X CD-ROM drive, 120kB Cache devfs: devfs_auto_unregister(): only one slave allowed master: "cd" old slave: "cdrom0" new slave: "cdrom1" Forcing Oops # ls -al /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd brw-rw-rw- 1 khim khim 22, 0 Jan 1 1970 /dev/ide/host0/bus1/target0/lun0/cd # rmmod ide-cd ide-cd: Device or resource busy -- cut -- Annoying but not disaster - I still can use my CD-ROM even if I can not unload ide-cd. -- cut -- $ su -c "xterm&" Password: # ls -l /dev/pts total 0 crw--w---- 1 root tty 136, 0 May 23 06:02 0 $ ls -l /dev/pts total 0 $ mc open (pty_name, O_RDWR): Permission denied couldn't open slave side of pty (/dev/pts/0) $ ls -l /dev/pts crw--w---- 1 root tty 136, 2 May 23 06:02 2 -- cut -- This is total disaster :-( If root in system using openpty()-based program then suddenly for other users mc, xterm and so on are work only if moon is in right phase... P.S. It's with kernel 2.2.15pre9 and devfs 99.11 but I've not seen any relevant patches in later versions :-/ From owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Mon May 22 22:20:36 2000 Received: by oss.sgi.com id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 22:20:26 -0700 Received: from vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca ([136.159.55.21]:62856 "EHLO vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca") by oss.sgi.com with ESMTP id ; Mon, 22 May 2000 22:20:02 -0700 Received: (from rgooch@localhost) by vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca (8.10.0/8.10.0) id e4N5Jha28117; Mon, 22 May 2000 23:19:43 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 23:19:43 -0600 Message-Id: <200005230519.e4N5Jha28117@vindaloo.ras.ucalgary.ca> From: Richard Gooch To: "Khimenko Victor" Cc: devfs@oss.sgi.com Subject: Re: devfs and device properties In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-devfs@oss.sgi.com Precedence: bulk Return-Path: X-Orcpt: rfc822;devfs-outgoing Khimenko Victor writes: > Looks like devfs handles changes in device ownership just fine. As > long as you are not doing anyting apart of changin ownership, that > is. No driver unloading, no user process exiting... Here are two > samples: Please trim your lines to ~70 characters. > -- cut -- > $ su -c "xterm&" > Password: > > # ls -l /dev/pts > total 0 > crw--w---- 1 root tty 136, 0 May 23 06:02 0 > > $ ls -l /dev/pts > total 0 > > $ mc > open (pty_name, O_RDWR): Permission denied > couldn't open slave side of pty (/dev/pts/0) > > $ ls -l /dev/pts > crw--w---- 1 root tty 136, 2 May 23 06:02 2 > > -- cut -- > This is total disaster :-( If root in system using openpty()-based program then > suddenly for other users mc, xterm and so on are work only if moon is in right > phase... > > P.S. It's with kernel 2.2.15pre9 and devfs 99.11 but I've not seen any > relevant patches in later versions :-/ Try 2.3.99-pre6 or later. Some fixes went in there. Regards, Richard.... Permanent: rgooch@atnf.csiro.au Current: rgooch@ras.ucalgary.ca